Do Christians know that Jesus didn’t fulfill the Jewish prophecies for the messiah?
By paranominal
Published: August 16, 2009
Tagged with: Christians, Existence, False Messiah, Fit, Hearsay, jesus, Jewish Messiah, Jewish Scripture, New Testament, Old Testament, Prophecies, Tanakh
Most Christians don’t know the truly *messianic* prophecies. When confronted with a list, they often say that Jesus will fulfill those prophecies when he returns in the future. They also bring out a list of "almost 300 prophecies" which Jesus theoretically fulfilled. Unfortunately, most of those so-called "prophecies" aren’t prophecies at all, and those that are refer to other people or events; it helps to know the context of the scriptures, rather than just picking out individual sentences or verses.
So, the answer to your question really is: no. Or, rather, it doesn’t matter to them, since they believe Jesus fulfilled other prophecies and performed miracles and is, in their belief, G-d incarnate.
Nope because for most christians the New Testament take precedent over anything in the old testament.
Actually, regardless of your faith, it is a well documented fact that a man named Jesus H. Christ was born in Jerusalem, preached that he was the son of God, gained quite a large following, and was executed on a roman cross. Jesus did exist, that much is proven. As for the rest, I have faith. I do look forward to seeing the responses to your accusation, and the links and verifiable quotes you will post supporting what you have stated.
No one has fulfilled all the Messianic prophecies – yet.
Christian doctrine plainly teaches that Jesus came the first time as the promised "Suffering Servant", to reconcile men to God by offering Himself as an atonement for sin.
He will come the second time as the conquering Messiah and Judge of all the earth. At that time the rest of the Messianic prophecies will be fulfilled by Jesus.
By a conservative estimate He has already fulfilled at least 300 prophecies………..see for yourself…….
http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/messiah.htm
Badda Boom Badda Bing!!!
Hi,
What I would like to know is what you are talking about. Tanach and Old testament are the same thing. The only difference is book order.
The old testament exists in hebrew and in greek before the birth of Jesus. Are you telling us that christians of the first century have traveled in space to wrote this text, and the write the new testament to prove their points????
Regards,
Emmanuel
So all those who believed in him were fools and also those who still live only for him; Jews will wait for their Messiah until they reach to hell.
And I will call you a liar. In the least you have believed in a lie.
Except Flavius Josephus documented Jesus’ life in the "Antiquities". This extra-biblical source is sufficient to prove that Jesus was here. (in the flesh)
And the hundreds and hundreds that witnessed His Resurrection (with no evidence to the contrary) is the proof of His "re-birth" to life.
And the Tanakh IS the Old Testament! It was here in its entity for over 400 years BEFORE the NT even started!
And why does the NT seem to flow from the OT? Because it is the historical evidence of that time you dunderhead.
It fits right in with the OT because IT’S ALL ONE BOOK!
It has One Author – God. The prophesies in the OT come true in the NT. Why? Because its the flow of time and history!
And why did Jesus not fulfill the prophesies as outlined in the Tanakh? Because the Jews DEMANDED that God destroy all the Gentiles and make the Nation of Israel the ONLY nation on earth! They misunderstood what God revealed in "The Day of the Lord" as a cataclysm of holy war in which the Messiah would bring about the destruction of everything except the Jew. And that’s not what Jesus brought to us. Jesus brought love and compassion, forgiveness and empathy. Again – why? Because the thread of Biblical understanding is not war, but peace. It is all about RECONCILIATION of God to man and man to man. Not destruction of the earth – but restoration of the earth and the restoration of the Kingdom of God on Earth! For ALL people. Not just the Jews. All people!
The Jews rejected Christ because they could not reconcile that they were "chosen" for another purpose.
It is PRIDE that is the destruction of the relationship of man to God and it will be PRIDE that will keep the Jews from being saved in the end.
Jesus WAS the Messiah to bring about the kingdom of God on earth and that will still happen. Scripture tells us this.
LOL wow well most christians arent jewish???? So technically we dont care if he was the jewish messiah the jews were the ones who demanded he be crucified and they faced persecution because the people that jesus came to save condemned him and shortly after they lost thier nation and faced persecution continously until isreal after WW2…….and as far as not being proof ummm well there are papers from rome stating a cult leader named jesus (cult becuase they were forcing them to not claim their god king of kings becuase it sounded like a riot since the son of king of kings is here so he should be ruler right thats why christians faced persecution in the beginning)….someone jewish obviously fed you thier opinion well ask him where his messiah is because the mojority of the religious world will believe he will be the anti christ which is us the chrisitians all 2.1 billion of us or 1/3 of the world….compared to 14 million
Is the Tanakh or the Torah written in English or any other common language that we gentiles may read so it can be cross checked. Or is it only written in Hebrew? If it is only written in Hebrew or Arabic, then it is only a one sided translation for only you to interpret as you wish?
Jews claim the Messianic Prophecies came from intentional alterations of the original by early Christians. This could be proved or disproved if we only had an ancient text of the Septuagint and the Tanakh to compare them to. As it turns out over 60 years ago ancient texts were found so we actually have something to compare to see where these "mistranslations" came from. They are called the dead sea scrolls.
This is what researchers said "The majority of the Septuagint, Masoretic Text and the Dead Sea Scrolls are remarkably similar and have dispelled unfounded theories that the Biblical text has been corrupted by time and conspiracy."
"The Septuagint and the Dead Sea Scrolls establish a very dramatic piece of evidence for Christianity – that the Old Testament prophecies of the coming Messiah unquestionably predated the time that Jesus Christ walked the earth. All theories of 1st Century AD conspiracies and prophecy manipulation go out the door when we realize that prophetic scripture like Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22 were fixed in written form at least 100 years before Christ, and probably many more. Again, despite time, persecution, and the incredibly minor instances of scribal mistakes, the Septuagint is just another example of how the Biblical text has remained faithful in its message and theme." (1)
Jewish scholars recognize that the Jews that owned the Dead Sea Scrolls had a different cannon. The Jewish Virtual library states that "some of these compositions were treated by the Qumran community as canonical and were studied by them." (2)
The Old Testament and the Torah are different the differences were created before the birth of Christianity.
The Jewish canon problem gets even more complicated. One of books in the Jewish Canon before the time of Yeshua (Jesus) was the book of Enoch. It is still in the Jewish Ethiopian Canon but no longer considered scripture by denominations that are descended from Rabbinical Judaism. Most authorities on scripture believe that this is because they were "cut off" from the other Jews when the decision was made by Rabbinical Judaism to consider them non-canonical. The reason why it was no longer considered scripture was because in the early days of Christianity it was highly referenced to prove that Jesus was the Messiah. You will note the Jewish literature before the time of Christ contained references to heaven hell and other doctrines that now "are not a part of Judaism".
There was a shift in Jewish belief after the birth of Christianity to exclude these things.
If you talk to Orthodox Jews you will find that they believe in the world to come (a parallel to heaven) that souls that are impure with require purification (a parallel to Catholic purgatory) and that some souls will be excluded from from the world to come (a parallel to hell). Since souls are animated by God being cut off will lead to destruction but they do not carry the idea out that far.
It has become too important to deny any relationship with Christianity or acknowledge these things on the off chance that one may consider that Jesus is the Messiah.
If you have any doubts just consider how Messianic (Jews that believe that Jesus is the Messiah) are treated.
You should also consider all the Christian works that contain the doctrines of Heaven and Hell that were written by the Jews before the time of Yeshua.
When the Dead sea Scrolls were found and translated many of them have so many similarities to Christianity they were thought of as a "missing link". We now have proof that 1st century Judaism was quite a bit different than the Judaism of today.
Christians believing Jesus is their messiah would not be as discouraging as their insistence that he is the Jewish messiah. The vast difference between the two religions is not as obvious to most christians as it is to jews; most likely because of the large christian following in the western world. Judaism is very small in comparison.
As for the response about the Dead Sea Scrolls. It has already been determined that during the first and second temple there would have existed many different sects of Judaism, but most of which were not supported by the majority within the jewish faith. This includes the Dead Sea Scrolls, which have had a large gaining in Christianity and are mostly ignored within Judaism.
Christianity has strong roots to Judaism, and they can feel connected in many ways through the simple fact that Jesus was born from a jewish mother. However, Judaism cannot support their idea of "messiah". It would be a denunciation of their own observance and faith. I think that many Christians find this to be hard, because the chosen people rejecting Jesus speaks very strongly about his legitimacy as a messiah.
Jesus is not done yet.
He is the Passover lamb. Past
He will return as the Lion of Judah. Future.
Why would they know that, when they were either never taught what a messiah is or were taught erroneous information about a messiah and about prophecy, but instead were taught about a man modelled after a new greek/roman concept of a ‘christ and master "son" of god’? And a man that is not documented at all, except by a small portion of their own writings which were written over 100 years after his supposed death, but a date or decade which even their earliest teachers and leaders are not really sure of. In fact, many of the first believers did not even believe he was a "man", but a spirit only. And according to both Jewish (Tanach) and Christian (New Testament) prophecy, it is the Many who will be deceived and will be surprised, and not the few!
And, we found out that it is the post Jesus Hebrew text that agrees most with the Qumran text, especially on the important "messianic" verses, rather than the later Greek text, especially that Symmachus, which agrees with the hebrew mostly until it gets to verses that read very different from the surrounding text, and out of context. Why? Because those are the verses Christians use as proof text. It was the 2000 year old Christian argument that the Jews altered the text, that "got thrown out the window". It got me to thinking differently. And many christians, like Eisenman, who were hoping to find in the Qumran texts, "the missing links" who are disappointed. And the "essene Jesus" is one of several different models of Jesus, but it is one that the majority of Christian scholars and especially ordinary believers reject.
Look back over why 1st century c.e. Philo (New, Platonistic, Greek way of looking at Torah) and Josephus say about texts and "canon". It is Christianity (Yeshuaism), not rabbinic judaism, that differs the most from the pre-Herod Judaism and Hebrew text and the post-Herod Jewish beliefs. And most of the New Testament text proudly declares that difference and it also confirms that sages like Gamaliel, the rabbis, are the traditionalist. If rabbinic Judaism came out of the "fourth philosopy", then Jesus had very little argument with them. But, where is the Christian sect and where is Paul? Only in a few verses, does it appear that Jesus is the most conservative, most strict (in those, he is more conservative, more "legalistic" than the Pharisees and it is their "liberalism" he speaks out against). Reminds me of a song, "he’s a walking contradiction, partly truth and partly fiction, taking every wrong direction…"
please compare this parables
[Quran -->Al-HASYR 59:21] Had We sent down this Qur’an on a mountain, verily, thou wouldst have seen it humble itself and cleave asunder for fear of Allah. Such are the similitudes which We propound to men, that they may reflect.
is that verse proven? of course not.
[Bible -->MATTEW 17:20]And He said to them, "Because of the littleness of your faith; for truly I say to you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.
it’s had happened in Mokattam Mountain – Egypt
http://theotokia.org/id7.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_the_Tanner#The_miracle_of_moving_the_mountain
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Coptic_Orthodox_Popes_of_Alexandria
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/mokattam.htm
http://www.amazon.com/story-Copts-Iris-Habib-Masri/dp/B0007ARI7Q
marcopolo confirm the story
http://www.newmiracles.org/mokatam.htm
http://www.placestudies.com/page/travel-classics/marco-polo
plus read this one
http://www.bibleprobe.com/300great.htm
–ilove Jesus